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Hermes Workshop Log File
Demons; OBE energy in July & August; the OBE trance state; nonphysical planes, subjective or objective?; meditation; the amount of activity in dreams; teaching and learning;
July 18, 2000
It is © copyright by Tom DeLiso / Hermes Trismegistus.
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Session Start: Tue Jul 18 16:19:19 2000
*** Now talking in #energyworks
*** Topic is 'Astral Projection, Lucid Dreams and more are yours to explore!_'
<Hermes`> hello there
<Gamble-> there.. you scared him away
<Hermes`> i see that
<Hermes`> next time I'll turn off the lion roar when I come on the channel
<Hermes`> hi magicman
<MagicMan> howdy gamble, hermes
<Gamble-> hi MM
<MagicMan> I got some serious stuff for toady.
<MagicMan> toady=today
<Pureness> hi
<MagicMan> howdy pre
<MagicMan> pure
<MagicMan> *g* typing :)
<MagicMan> its like this hermes, I was browsing through the net today and I met this guy who claims to be in trouble with demons
<Hermes`> hi pure
<MagicMan> it seems to be the real thing but I may be mistaken, want to hear about it?
<Hermes`> sure
<Hermes`> we can talk about demons
<MagicMan> it seemed very similar to stuff that Robert Bruce has described
<MagicMan> this guys as little or no knowledge of that is happening to him so I'll try to interpret and translate (since he's Portuguese)
<MagicMan> he told he had dreamed about 4/5 months ago of a child in old clothing talking in a strange language, then I think he described a false awakening...
<MagicMan> then he said when he 'woke up' he could not move from his bed and in front of him was a tunnel of lights and people or creatures around him doing some kind of a ritual
<MagicMan> in the same language of the child
<MagicMan> then he said he felt his body beginning to feel empty as his soul was being taken.
<MagicMan> He started asking for help from god and shortly everything started to disappear (the tunnel was last) then he could move again and there were markings of a force pushing downwards on the bed
<MagicMan> now he said he was attacked again but...what do you think of his story?
<Hermes`> well
<Hermes`> it could be some kind of attack
<MagicMan> it isn't bullshit, is it?
<Hermes`> I don't think so
<Hermes`> it just may not be a demon possession thing
<Hermes`> he could of interpreted it that way
<MagicMan> yes I think so
<Hermes`> consciousness can play some strange tricks on you
<MagicMan> I think they were trying to feed on his energy
<Hermes`> that is possible.
<MagicMan> no?
<Hermes`> also just as possible is that his fears converted a situation where his spirit guides were helping him out of the body
<MagicMan> what about those people you free sometimes on your travels what happens to them?
<MagicMan> I don't think so telling from what he told me next
<Hermes`> what was next?
<MagicMan> now comes the part I'm not so sure about
<MagicMan> he told me that recently he and a friend were attacked
<MagicMan> he said that they couldn't move and 'demons' appeared speaking in that old language
<MagicMan> he said he could tell they had glowing eyes
<MagicMan> and his friends could see they had big heads, eyes teeth and tongues
<Hermes`> did this happen in the physical or the nonphysical?
<MagicMan> I suppose physical...
<MagicMan> maybe they were not but he told me it was physical
<MagicMan> and there were 1 or 2 people attacked besides him
<MagicMan> and that his friend was getting weaker has they biting licking (her I think)
<MagicMan> he said he didn't notice feeling since he told me he had lots of energy
<Hermes`> well
<MagicMan> he claims that he as always been aware of strange creatures (?!) and noises since childhood
<Hermes`> I'm not saying this kind of thing doesn't happen, but what I am saying is that more than likely some of this is created by his own thoughts and energy.
<MagicMan> now I dunno I have heard of physical manifestations but...
<MagicMan> I have seen similar stuff like in this document I'm gonna send you by r. bruce
<MagicMan> but...other people involved?
<MagicMan> well you have come across many demons in your time (I'd think) seen anything even remotely similar?
<MagicMan> any demon or groups of demons ever done something like this?
<Hermes`> I have never seen physical demons like that
<Hermes`> only nonphysical ones
<Hermes`> this is too long to read now, give me the short version of this text file
<MagicMan> short version is that a group of kids were being visited by entities
<Hermes`> nonphysical attacks that are weird and often Hollywood like can happen. But I have not really heard of any of these kinds of things happening in the physical plane, unless real physical people were doing them.
<MagicMan> well the document is in the physical plane
<MagicMan> but even if that attack is faulted somewhere the other story remains unexplained
<MagicMan> I was asking you if any entities in there did some stuff even remotely similar I bet you've met your share
<Hermes`> anything can go on on the nonphysical plane
<Hermes`> you do meet all sorts of characters
<MagicMan> does anything occur to you that can help him? nonphysically
<Hermes`> whenever someone is under nonphysical attack it is because their connection to the universe and their energy level is low.
<Hermes`> the MPE can help
<Hermes`> prayer can help too if you are religious
<Hermes`> crystal meditation can help
<Hermes`> the merkabah can help
<MagicMan> well he doesn't strike me as one who's ready to enter in that stuff, not like this at least
<Hermes`> well then the more old fashion way...
<Hermes`> splashing holy water on himself
<Hermes`> putting a ring of salt around his bed at night
<MagicMan> making him fell protected and confident?
<Hermes`> wearing a quartz crystal or a hematite stone
<Hermes`> the salt will absorb negative energy
<Cyprus> ok
<Cyprus> anything
<Cyprus> crystal?
<Cyprus> looks cool
<Hermes`> the holy water is charged with energy and will increase his own energy
<Cyprus> hum...
<MagicMan> well I guess thats about all I can do for him for now, thanks for the info hermes
<Hermes`> magicman, this demon stuff is very delicate.
<Hermes`> he has to want to help himself first.
<MagicMan> well, I don't know that,...I don't know him
<MagicMan> only thing I noticed was that he was desperate to know what was happening to him
<Hermes`> magicman, there could be a couple reasons this is happening to him: 1- he is conjuring it up himself because of his own beliefs, 2- someone sending him bad energy . The cure for both of these is to raise your energy and to connect with your higher self and with God.
<Hermes`> magicman, often times a demon will prey on you, not because of what you have, but because he can.
<Hermes`> demons look for the weak and those people that are disconnected from their God-Self.
<MagicMan> I see
<Hermes`> I'm not belittling his condition, but he has to want to change, and want to reach for the light.
<MagicMan> he has to find out which is it
<Hermes`> no...
<Hermes`> he has to want to reach for the light, to change his condition
<MagicMan> ok
<Hermes`> and be willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen
<Pe-> Hermes, I have some questions :)
<Pe-> not question, it is more a story :)
<MagicMan> go ahead
<Pe-> I had a dream nowadays, which in I saw a vehicle ...
<Pe-> It was 1m * 40cm and it could move... fly
<Pe-> That's it :)
<Pe-> I am thinking on how could it work :)
<Cyprus_> testing
<iWonder> Cu're in Cyprus
<Hermes`> pe, well it could work on some kind of anti-gravity device
<Hermes`> they had those in Atlantis
<Pe-> I can still remember those shapes
<Pe-> btw, I haven't had any oobes since 6th of may ...
<Pe-> Isn't it sad? :)
<Cyprus_> I haven't had oobes at more than 3 months too( I think)
<Hermes`> well to be honest July is not a great month for obe energy
<Hermes`> neither is August
<Hermes`> however, you should keep working on your energy routines
<Hermes`> because in September it gets real good again
<Cyprus_> why it isn't a good month?
<Hermes`> I don't really know, I just know that from experience the obe energy was not as good these two months.
<Hermes`> however you could be very successful at this time too
<Cyprus_> I have been with some problems relaxing
<Cyprus_> so I don't pass to the second stage
<Cyprus_> rhythmic breathing
<Cyprus_> the interesting part
<Cyprus_> is that I fall asleep...
<Cyprus_> the 3rd stage would be concentration, awareness and the Trance state
<Hermes`> well you could also go through the relaxation stage; then fall asleep; then awake abruptly and be in the trance state. This does happen.
<Cyprus_> hum
<Cyprus_> that use to happen to me allot
<Cyprus_> but I would be with paralysis
<Hermes`> yea that is the trance state
<Cyprus_> it was very easy to have a obe anyway(and I did)
<Hermes`> ah good
<Cyprus_> but it was in the etheric body
<Hermes`> so
<Hermes`> that is a good body to start with
<Cyprus_> so I had that vision problems
<Cyprus_> too heavy
<Cyprus_> etc..
<Cyprus_> next time I'm in this body
<Cyprus_> I am gonna too what you told me
<Cyprus_> deep rhythmic breathing
<Hermes`> yea, it sounds like you did not take enough energy out of the body with you. The deep breathing will help
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> not to mention I should do MPE
<Cyprus_> I am doing a training now
<Cyprus_> but I had little time today
<Cyprus_> the only thing I did from what I wanted to do was Body Awareness
<Cyprus_> and still, not all the time
<Cyprus_> my problems with relaxation
<Cyprus_> are with the hands
<Cyprus_> the way the fingers are
<Cyprus_> and in the throat
<Cyprus_> how do you call the "liquid we split"
<Hermes`> I don't understand what you mean by hands and throat cyprus
<Cyprus_> you see
<Cyprus_> the position of the fingers
<Cyprus_> hum...
<Cyprus_> it's hard to explain
<Cyprus_> but the most important
<Cyprus_> the throat
<Cyprus_> how do you call the "liquid we split"
<Hermes`> so it is hard to relax your fingers and throat
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> the fingers i have solve the problem
<Cyprus_> but the throat
<Cyprus_> again, how do you call the "liquid we split"
<Cyprus_> that "liquid" is constantly "removing" itself
<Cyprus_> and I can't relax koz
<MagicMan> I have more trouble with torso and neck
<Cyprus_> it becomes accumulated
<Cyprus_> so I have to unrelax again
<Cyprus_> yea, I have problems with the Neck too
<Hermes`> your throat fills up with fluid?
<Cyprus_> yea
<Hermes`> you can try to elevate your head with a couple pillows
<Cyprus_> I have to swallow it
<Cyprus_> hum
<Cyprus_> ok
<Cyprus_> you see
<Cyprus_> my sleeping position is with my back up
<Cyprus_> so its very easy to me to fall asleep that way
<Cyprus_> with my back down is easy not to fall asleep
<Cyprus_> and I almost had a obe that way
<Cyprus_> using the rope
<Hermes`> I see
<Hermes`> well the rhythmic breath can help to change the parameters a bit. If you go to normal sleep you don't use the rhythmic breath. If you are attempting an obe you do.
<Cyprus_> but I had that problem with the "fluid", I don't have problems with my fingers in that position
<Cyprus_> well,
<Cyprus_> for now my objection is just meditate
<Cyprus_> that's the primary objective
<Cyprus_> the second objective is obe
<MagicMan> with belly up it is harder to relax the neck, at least for me
<Cyprus_> well, I guess each one has a position that fits each one
<Hermes`> yea, you may have to experiment to find the best obe position
<MagicMan> on my back is easier
<MagicMan> still the neck is a complicated area
<MagicMan> wb pure
<PureHeart> hey all
<Hermes`> well you could have a very sensitive throat chakra, or a blockage there
<Hermes`> you could do the mpe and use the color of that chakra
<Hermes`> and concentrate on that chakra to help heal it.
<Cyprus_> hum...
<MagicMan> you mean visualize the energy of the color of the chakra?
<Hermes`> yea
<Hermes`> instead of white use magenta
<Cyprus_> lets just not forget that the problem with some people is the Muscles
<Hermes`> and see that energy focus on the throat chakra
<Hermes`> well I have a way to calm those muscles
<Hermes`> do a routine of energy stretches some time during the day you will be trying to obe.
<PureHeart> btw iWonder how's your Dad?
<iWonder> dad's fine
<Cyprus_> why doesn't he show up here sometimes?
<Cyprus_> :)
<Cyprus_> hermes:
<Cyprus_> in the trance state
<Hermes`> ohmmmm
<Cyprus_> the body suddenly becomes heavy right?
<Hermes`> well there is a shift in consciousness
<Hermes`> I'm not sure you could call it heavy, though it is subject to interpretation
<Cyprus_> subject!
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> you just made me remember a question
<Cyprus_> :)
<Cyprus_> just thing before
<iWonder> night all
<Hermes`> night wonder
<Cyprus_> hum, I was once relaxing
<PureHeart> night!
<Cyprus_> good night
<Cyprus_> and listening to music ( Astral Projection)
<Cyprus_> and trying to concentrate too
<Cyprus_> and suddenly
<Cyprus_> my body felt different
<MagicMan> I found a few hits on astral projection but none stated here
<Cyprus_> the feeling can be describe as the feeling of shirking
<Cyprus_> and the body felt heavier
<MagicMan> I found astral proj. - rai
<Hermes`> that could be the way you fall into the trance state.
<MagicMan> astral proj. - azzu
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> anyway
<Cyprus_> my question
<Cyprus_> my seems a little complicated
<Cyprus_> is the etheric plane Subjective or Objective?
<Cyprus_> and what about the astral plane?
<Cyprus_> i presume that the astral plane is more Subjective than Objective, otherwise we couldn't change or create things so easy
<Hermes`> the nonphysical planes can be very easily changed and manipulated.
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> but is the etheric plane Subjective or Objective?
<Cyprus_> or both
<Cyprus_> I presume that the etheric is more Objective that Subjective
<Cyprus_> since it depends of Physical Reality
<Cyprus_> and Subjective koz we can create Thought Forms
<Hermes`> well it gets easier to manipulate energy as you go further from the physical plane
<Hermes`> so on the etheric plane you can alter some things, like you can float, you can create thought forms
<Hermes`> time is not the same, it can be stretched or compressed
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> I have noticed that
<MagicMan> listening to astral proj. -rai its interesting
<Hermes`> I would say the etheric plane is both subjective and objective
<Hermes`> you can create your own space and yet meet with areas that are of other people's creations
<Hermes`> like Camelot
<Hermes`> it is a real etheric place that was created by other people
<Hermes`> when you go there you see Camelot as it was created, and yet you will also see it through your own eyes
<Cyprus_2> hum..
<Cyprus_2> hermes
<Cyprus_2> when you meditate
<Cyprus_2> what do you usually do?
<Hermes`> i relax
<Hermes`> clear my mind
<Hermes`> use my meditation hand position
<Hermes`> rhythmic breath
<Hermes`> then I'll send off some energy to people and things that require it...
<Hermes`> then ask for assistance from God for my reality creating..
<Hermes`> then clear my mind of everything for as long as that lasts
<Hermes`> then come out of it, and I'm done
<Hermes`> sometimes I will see things in the last part
<Hermes`> sometimes I don't
<Hermes`> usually that lasts about 20 minutes
<Cyprus_2> a doubt I have
<Hermes`> which is?
<Cyprus_2> about that hypnotic images
<Cyprus_2> should I ignore them or stop them?
<Hermes`> you should just let them play, like watching a movie
<Hermes`> that is the travel/message part of the meditation
<Hermes`> after the meditation, you can then recount the images and try to see what they mean.
<Cyprus_2> what about if I want to obe?
<Hermes`> obe is not a meditation
<Cyprus_2> yea
<Cyprus_2> I see
<Hermes`> you can travel in meditation
<Hermes`> but this is like watching a movie
<Cyprus_2> but I get out of body with a meditation
<Hermes`> you can, do this
<Cyprus_2> what's the difference between the mind wandering and hypnotic images
<Hermes`> mind wandering and hypnotic images are the same
<Hermes`> not all your meditations will result in out of body travel
<Hermes`> which is good
<Hermes`> because some real work has to get done in meditation that does not require you to be out and bout the galaxy
<Cyprus_2> I still didn't understand the really use of meditation
<Cyprus_2> the uses I know until now are:
<Cyprus_2> 1º healing (if we do a healing meditation)
<Cyprus_2> 2º sleep reduction
<Hermes`> meditation is the quieting of the mind so guidance and wisdom can set in
<Hermes`> when you sleep your consciousness is still active. When you are awake your consciousness is still active. When you meditate, your consciousness is silent.
<Hermes`> it is only when consciousness is silent that you can hear the universe speak to you
<Cyprus_2> and when I sleep?
<Hermes`> when you sleep your consciousness is active
<Hermes`> it leaves the body, goes into dreams, and explores physical realities yet to be born
<Hermes`> it is anything but quiet
<Hermes`> you do more in one night's sleep than you do in one physical year.
<Cyprus_2> ?
<Cyprus_2> more in one night than a year?
<Hermes`> yep
<Cyprus_2> doesn't that depends on the person energy?
<Hermes`> hard to believe, but this is one of the reasons you don't remember much of your night
<Cyprus_2> well, that would explain why most people can't remember their dreams
<Cyprus_2> LOL
<Cyprus_2> same thing
<Hermes`> :)
<Cyprus_2> :)
<Cyprus_2> interesting
<Hermes`> energy is important in how you handle yourself in you dreams and stuff
<Hermes`> but it is not a factor in how much you do
<Cyprus_2> I guess that most people also think that dreams look unreal koz they can't remember it well when awake
<Hermes`> yes
<Cyprus_2> in my lucid dreams I am always surprise on how real it looks
<Hermes`> and as you become more lucid, you will wonder how you could of thought otherwise about dreams.
<Hermes`> dreams are real
<Cyprus_2> yea
<Cyprus_2> very
<Cyprus_2> it's very interesting when there is very Complex Scenarios
<Cyprus_2> or even simple ones
<Hermes`> I find dreams lots of fun
<Cyprus_2> what I sometimes like in Lucid Dreams and even in Dreams themselves, its the expectation I have on how will they be
<Cyprus_2> and that's why I wonder if they are Objective or Subjective
<Hermes`> they are both
<Cyprus_2> yea
<Cyprus_2> its amazing our unconscious mind Creativity
<Cyprus_2> when I am falling asleep conscious
<Cyprus_2> and see hypnotic images
<Cyprus_2> or listen to sounds
<Cyprus_2> I think the music I sometimes listen very cool
<Cyprus_2> if I weren't lazy I would probably get up and try to reproduce the music
<Cyprus_2> I would win a fortune with them...
<Cyprus_2> :)
<Hermes`> the psyche, your own conscious and unconscious mind, is like a vast land that you have only scratched the surface of in discovering.
<Hermes`> this music is a small part of that wonder
<Hermes`> much more awaits as you go deeper and deeper into the Self.
<Hermes`> it sounds like you are doing most well
<Hermes`> now I must depart, as I have to be someplace shortly.
<Hermes`> the chat was very good tonight
<Hermes`> all of you are doing very well. I was only thinking that yesterday
<Hermes`> in the two years or more that you have all been coming here, you have all grown and learned a tremendous amount.
<Cyprus_2> ok
<Cyprus_2> yea
<Cyprus_2> nice chat
<Hermes`> be proud of what you have accomplished
<Cyprus_2> yea, I presume so
<Hermes`> talk to you all soon, bye
<Cyprus_2> hum
<Cyprus_2> just thing
<Cyprus_2> there is guy
<Cyprus_2> that I meet
<Cyprus_2> and I am teaching it
<Cyprus_2> he learns really fast
<Cyprus_2> had an obe already
<Cyprus_2> can I bring him here?
<Cyprus_2> later of course
<Hermes`> sure
<Cyprus_2> ok
<Cyprus_2> I do mean fast
<Hermes`> and it is good that you are passing on the knowledge
<Cyprus_2> ok
<Cyprus_2> good night then
<Cyprus_2> yea, I like teaching
<Hermes`> you will find your own students will learn faster than you did
<Hermes`> and you will learn more because of teaching them
<Hermes`> keep it up
<Cyprus_2> maybe because we already know what our difficulties and mistakes were
<Hermes`> yes
<Cyprus_2> and koz their questions makes us think
<Hermes`> yep
<Cyprus_2> ok
<Cyprus_2> I am going too
<Cyprus_2> need a rest
<Cyprus_2> haven't sleep much
<Cyprus_2> cya then
<Hermes`> okay night then.
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jul 18 19:33:03 2000
*** Now talking in #energyworks
*** Topic is 'Astral Projection, Lucid Dreams and more are yours to explore!_'
<Hermes`> hello there
<Gamble-> there.. you scared him away
<Hermes`> i see that
<Hermes`> next time I'll turn off the lion roar when I come on the channel
<Hermes`> hi magicman
<MagicMan> howdy gamble, hermes
<Gamble-> hi MM
<MagicMan> I got some serious stuff for toady.
<MagicMan> toady=today
<Pureness> hi
<MagicMan> howdy pre
<MagicMan> pure
<MagicMan> *g* typing :)
<MagicMan> its like this hermes, I was browsing through the net today and I met this guy who claims to be in trouble with demons
<Hermes`> hi pure
<MagicMan> it seems to be the real thing but I may be mistaken, want to hear about it?
<Hermes`> sure
<Hermes`> we can talk about demons
<MagicMan> it seemed very similar to stuff that Robert Bruce has described
<MagicMan> this guys as little or no knowledge of that is happening to him so I'll try to interpret and translate (since he's Portuguese)
<MagicMan> he told he had dreamed about 4/5 months ago of a child in old clothing talking in a strange language, then I think he described a false awakening...
<MagicMan> then he said when he 'woke up' he could not move from his bed and in front of him was a tunnel of lights and people or creatures around him doing some kind of a ritual
<MagicMan> in the same language of the child
<MagicMan> then he said he felt his body beginning to feel empty as his soul was being taken.
<MagicMan> He started asking for help from god and shortly everything started to disappear (the tunnel was last) then he could move again and there were markings of a force pushing downwards on the bed
<MagicMan> now he said he was attacked again but...what do you think of his story?
<Hermes`> well
<Hermes`> it could be some kind of attack
<MagicMan> it isn't bullshit, is it?
<Hermes`> I don't think so
<Hermes`> it just may not be a demon possession thing
<Hermes`> he could of interpreted it that way
<MagicMan> yes I think so
<Hermes`> consciousness can play some strange tricks on you
<MagicMan> I think they were trying to feed on his energy
<Hermes`> that is possible.
<MagicMan> no?
<Hermes`> also just as possible is that his fears converted a situation where his spirit guides were helping him out of the body
<MagicMan> what about those people you free sometimes on your travels what happens to them?
<MagicMan> I don't think so telling from what he told me next
<Hermes`> what was next?
<MagicMan> now comes the part I'm not so sure about
<MagicMan> he told me that recently he and a friend were attacked
<MagicMan> he said that they couldn't move and 'demons' appeared speaking in that old language
<MagicMan> he said he could tell they had glowing eyes
<MagicMan> and his friends could see they had big heads, eyes teeth and tongues
<Hermes`> did this happen in the physical or the nonphysical?
<MagicMan> I suppose physical...
<MagicMan> maybe they were not but he told me it was physical
<MagicMan> and there were 1 or 2 people attacked besides him
<MagicMan> and that his friend was getting weaker has they biting licking (her I think)
<MagicMan> he said he didn't notice feeling since he told me he had lots of energy
<Hermes`> well
<MagicMan> he claims that he as always been aware of strange creatures (?!) and noises since childhood
<Hermes`> I'm not saying this kind of thing doesn't happen, but what I am saying is that more than likely some of this is created by his own thoughts and energy.
<MagicMan> now I dunno I have heard of physical manifestations but...
<MagicMan> I have seen similar stuff like in this document I'm gonna send you by r. bruce
<MagicMan> but...other people involved?
<MagicMan> well you have come across many demons in your time (I'd think) seen anything even remotely similar?
<MagicMan> any demon or groups of demons ever done something like this?
<Hermes`> I have never seen physical demons like that
<Hermes`> only nonphysical ones
<Hermes`> this is too long to read now, give me the short version of this text file
<MagicMan> short version is that a group of kids were being visited by entities
<Hermes`> nonphysical attacks that are weird and often Hollywood like can happen. But I have not really heard of any of these kinds of things happening in the physical plane, unless real physical people were doing them.
<MagicMan> well the document is in the physical plane
<MagicMan> but even if that attack is faulted somewhere the other story remains unexplained
<MagicMan> I was asking you if any entities in there did some stuff even remotely similar I bet you've met your share
<Hermes`> anything can go on on the nonphysical plane
<Hermes`> you do meet all sorts of characters
<MagicMan> does anything occur to you that can help him? nonphysically
<Hermes`> whenever someone is under nonphysical attack it is because their connection to the universe and their energy level is low.
<Hermes`> the MPE can help
<Hermes`> prayer can help too if you are religious
<Hermes`> crystal meditation can help
<Hermes`> the merkabah can help
<MagicMan> well he doesn't strike me as one who's ready to enter in that stuff, not like this at least
<Hermes`> well then the more old fashion way...
<Hermes`> splashing holy water on himself
<Hermes`> putting a ring of salt around his bed at night
<MagicMan> making him fell protected and confident?
<Hermes`> wearing a quartz crystal or a hematite stone
<Hermes`> the salt will absorb negative energy
<Cyprus> ok
<Cyprus> anything
<Cyprus> crystal?
<Cyprus> looks cool
<Hermes`> the holy water is charged with energy and will increase his own energy
<Cyprus> hum...
<MagicMan> well I guess thats about all I can do for him for now, thanks for the info hermes
<Hermes`> magicman, this demon stuff is very delicate.
<Hermes`> he has to want to help himself first.
<MagicMan> well, I don't know that,...I don't know him
<MagicMan> only thing I noticed was that he was desperate to know what was happening to him
<Hermes`> magicman, there could be a couple reasons this is happening to him: 1- he is conjuring it up himself because of his own beliefs, 2- someone sending him bad energy . The cure for both of these is to raise your energy and to connect with your higher self and with God.
<Hermes`> magicman, often times a demon will prey on you, not because of what you have, but because he can.
<Hermes`> demons look for the weak and those people that are disconnected from their God-Self.
<MagicMan> I see
<Hermes`> I'm not belittling his condition, but he has to want to change, and want to reach for the light.
<MagicMan> he has to find out which is it
<Hermes`> no...
<Hermes`> he has to want to reach for the light, to change his condition
<MagicMan> ok
<Hermes`> and be willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen
<Pe-> Hermes, I have some questions :)
<Pe-> not question, it is more a story :)
<MagicMan> go ahead
<Pe-> I had a dream nowadays, which in I saw a vehicle ...
<Pe-> It was 1m * 40cm and it could move... fly
<Pe-> That's it :)
<Pe-> I am thinking on how could it work :)
<Cyprus_> testing
<iWonder> Cu're in Cyprus
<Hermes`> pe, well it could work on some kind of anti-gravity device
<Hermes`> they had those in Atlantis
<Pe-> I can still remember those shapes
<Pe-> btw, I haven't had any oobes since 6th of may ...
<Pe-> Isn't it sad? :)
<Cyprus_> I haven't had oobes at more than 3 months too( I think)
<Hermes`> well to be honest July is not a great month for obe energy
<Hermes`> neither is August
<Hermes`> however, you should keep working on your energy routines
<Hermes`> because in September it gets real good again
<Cyprus_> why it isn't a good month?
<Hermes`> I don't really know, I just know that from experience the obe energy was not as good these two months.
<Hermes`> however you could be very successful at this time too
<Cyprus_> I have been with some problems relaxing
<Cyprus_> so I don't pass to the second stage
<Cyprus_> rhythmic breathing
<Cyprus_> the interesting part
<Cyprus_> is that I fall asleep...
<Cyprus_> the 3rd stage would be concentration, awareness and the Trance state
<Hermes`> well you could also go through the relaxation stage; then fall asleep; then awake abruptly and be in the trance state. This does happen.
<Cyprus_> hum
<Cyprus_> that use to happen to me allot
<Cyprus_> but I would be with paralysis
<Hermes`> yea that is the trance state
<Cyprus_> it was very easy to have a obe anyway(and I did)
<Hermes`> ah good
<Cyprus_> but it was in the etheric body
<Hermes`> so
<Hermes`> that is a good body to start with
<Cyprus_> so I had that vision problems
<Cyprus_> too heavy
<Cyprus_> etc..
<Cyprus_> next time I'm in this body
<Cyprus_> I am gonna too what you told me
<Cyprus_> deep rhythmic breathing
<Hermes`> yea, it sounds like you did not take enough energy out of the body with you. The deep breathing will help
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> not to mention I should do MPE
<Cyprus_> I am doing a training now
<Cyprus_> but I had little time today
<Cyprus_> the only thing I did from what I wanted to do was Body Awareness
<Cyprus_> and still, not all the time
<Cyprus_> my problems with relaxation
<Cyprus_> are with the hands
<Cyprus_> the way the fingers are
<Cyprus_> and in the throat
<Cyprus_> how do you call the "liquid we split"
<Hermes`> I don't understand what you mean by hands and throat cyprus
<Cyprus_> you see
<Cyprus_> the position of the fingers
<Cyprus_> hum...
<Cyprus_> it's hard to explain
<Cyprus_> but the most important
<Cyprus_> the throat
<Cyprus_> how do you call the "liquid we split"
<Hermes`> so it is hard to relax your fingers and throat
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> the fingers i have solve the problem
<Cyprus_> but the throat
<Cyprus_> again, how do you call the "liquid we split"
<Cyprus_> that "liquid" is constantly "removing" itself
<Cyprus_> and I can't relax koz
<MagicMan> I have more trouble with torso and neck
<Cyprus_> it becomes accumulated
<Cyprus_> so I have to unrelax again
<Cyprus_> yea, I have problems with the Neck too
<Hermes`> your throat fills up with fluid?
<Cyprus_> yea
<Hermes`> you can try to elevate your head with a couple pillows
<Cyprus_> I have to swallow it
<Cyprus_> hum
<Cyprus_> ok
<Cyprus_> you see
<Cyprus_> my sleeping position is with my back up
<Cyprus_> so its very easy to me to fall asleep that way
<Cyprus_> with my back down is easy not to fall asleep
<Cyprus_> and I almost had a obe that way
<Cyprus_> using the rope
<Hermes`> I see
<Hermes`> well the rhythmic breath can help to change the parameters a bit. If you go to normal sleep you don't use the rhythmic breath. If you are attempting an obe you do.
<Cyprus_> but I had that problem with the "fluid", I don't have problems with my fingers in that position
<Cyprus_> well,
<Cyprus_> for now my objection is just meditate
<Cyprus_> that's the primary objective
<Cyprus_> the second objective is obe
<MagicMan> with belly up it is harder to relax the neck, at least for me
<Cyprus_> well, I guess each one has a position that fits each one
<Hermes`> yea, you may have to experiment to find the best obe position
<MagicMan> on my back is easier
<MagicMan> still the neck is a complicated area
<MagicMan> wb pure
<PureHeart> hey all
<Hermes`> well you could have a very sensitive throat chakra, or a blockage there
<Hermes`> you could do the mpe and use the color of that chakra
<Hermes`> and concentrate on that chakra to help heal it.
<Cyprus_> hum...
<MagicMan> you mean visualize the energy of the color of the chakra?
<Hermes`> yea
<Hermes`> instead of white use magenta
<Cyprus_> lets just not forget that the problem with some people is the Muscles
<Hermes`> and see that energy focus on the throat chakra
<Hermes`> well I have a way to calm those muscles
<Hermes`> do a routine of energy stretches some time during the day you will be trying to obe.
<PureHeart> btw iWonder how's your Dad?
<iWonder> dad's fine
<Cyprus_> why doesn't he show up here sometimes?
<Cyprus_> :)
<Cyprus_> hermes:
<Cyprus_> in the trance state
<Hermes`> ohmmmm
<Cyprus_> the body suddenly becomes heavy right?
<Hermes`> well there is a shift in consciousness
<Hermes`> I'm not sure you could call it heavy, though it is subject to interpretation
<Cyprus_> subject!
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> you just made me remember a question
<Cyprus_> :)
<Cyprus_> just thing before
<iWonder> night all
<Hermes`> night wonder
<Cyprus_> hum, I was once relaxing
<PureHeart> night!
<Cyprus_> good night
<Cyprus_> and listening to music ( Astral Projection)
<Cyprus_> and trying to concentrate too
<Cyprus_> and suddenly
<Cyprus_> my body felt different
<MagicMan> I found a few hits on astral projection but none stated here
<Cyprus_> the feeling can be describe as the feeling of shirking
<Cyprus_> and the body felt heavier
<MagicMan> I found astral proj. - rai
<Hermes`> that could be the way you fall into the trance state.
<MagicMan> astral proj. - azzu
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> anyway
<Cyprus_> my question
<Cyprus_> my seems a little complicated
<Cyprus_> is the etheric plane Subjective or Objective?
<Cyprus_> and what about the astral plane?
<Cyprus_> i presume that the astral plane is more Subjective than Objective, otherwise we couldn't change or create things so easy
<Hermes`> the nonphysical planes can be very easily changed and manipulated.
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> but is the etheric plane Subjective or Objective?
<Cyprus_> or both
<Cyprus_> I presume that the etheric is more Objective that Subjective
<Cyprus_> since it depends of Physical Reality
<Cyprus_> and Subjective koz we can create Thought Forms
<Hermes`> well it gets easier to manipulate energy as you go further from the physical plane
<Hermes`> so on the etheric plane you can alter some things, like you can float, you can create thought forms
<Hermes`> time is not the same, it can be stretched or compressed
<Cyprus_> yea
<Cyprus_> I have noticed that
<MagicMan> listening to astral proj. -rai its interesting
<Hermes`> I would say the etheric plane is both subjective and objective
<Hermes`> you can create your own space and yet meet with areas that are of other people's creations
<Hermes`> like Camelot
<Hermes`> it is a real etheric place that was created by other people
<Hermes`> when you go there you see Camelot as it was created, and yet you will also see it through your own eyes
<Cyprus_2> hum..
<Cyprus_2> hermes
<Cyprus_2> when you meditate
<Cyprus_2> what do you usually do?
<Hermes`> i relax
<Hermes`> clear my mind
<Hermes`> use my meditation hand position
<Hermes`> rhythmic breath
<Hermes`> then I'll send off some energy to people and things that require it...
<Hermes`> then ask for assistance from God for my reality creating..
<Hermes`> then clear my mind of everything for as long as that lasts
<Hermes`> then come out of it, and I'm done
<Hermes`> sometimes I will see things in the last part
<Hermes`> sometimes I don't
<Hermes`> usually that lasts about 20 minutes
<Cyprus_2> a doubt I have
<Hermes`> which is?
<Cyprus_2> about that hypnotic images
<Cyprus_2> should I ignore them or stop them?
<Hermes`> you should just let them play, like watching a movie
<Hermes`> that is the travel/message part of the meditation
<Hermes`> after the meditation, you can then recount the images and try to see what they mean.
<Cyprus_2> what about if I want to obe?
<Hermes`> obe is not a meditation
<Cyprus_2> yea
<Cyprus_2> I see
<Hermes`> you can travel in meditation
<Hermes`> but this is like watching a movie
<Cyprus_2> but I get out of body with a meditation
<Hermes`> you can, do this
<Cyprus_2> what's the difference between the mind wandering and hypnotic images
<Hermes`> mind wandering and hypnotic images are the same
<Hermes`> not all your meditations will result in out of body travel
<Hermes`> which is good
<Hermes`> because some real work has to get done in meditation that does not require you to be out and bout the galaxy
<Cyprus_2> I still didn't understand the really use of meditation
<Cyprus_2> the uses I know until now are:
<Cyprus_2> 1º healing (if we do a healing meditation)
<Cyprus_2> 2º sleep reduction
<Hermes`> meditation is the quieting of the mind so guidance and wisdom can set in
<Hermes`> when you sleep your consciousness is still active. When you are awake your consciousness is still active. When you meditate, your consciousness is silent.
<Hermes`> it is only when consciousness is silent that you can hear the universe speak to you
<Cyprus_2> and when I sleep?
<Hermes`> when you sleep your consciousness is active
<Hermes`> it leaves the body, goes into dreams, and explores physical realities yet to be born
<Hermes`> it is anything but quiet
<Hermes`> you do more in one night's sleep than you do in one physical year.
<Cyprus_2> ?
<Cyprus_2> more in one night than a year?
<Hermes`> yep
<Cyprus_2> doesn't that depends on the person energy?
<Hermes`> hard to believe, but this is one of the reasons you don't remember much of your night
<Cyprus_2> well, that would explain why most people can't remember their dreams
<Cyprus_2> LOL
<Cyprus_2> same thing
<Hermes`> :)
<Cyprus_2> :)
<Cyprus_2> interesting
<Hermes`> energy is important in how you handle yourself in you dreams and stuff
<Hermes`> but it is not a factor in how much you do
<Cyprus_2> I guess that most people also think that dreams look unreal koz they can't remember it well when awake
<Hermes`> yes
<Cyprus_2> in my lucid dreams I am always surprise on how real it looks
<Hermes`> and as you become more lucid, you will wonder how you could of thought otherwise about dreams.
<Hermes`> dreams are real
<Cyprus_2> yea
<Cyprus_2> very
<Cyprus_2> it's very interesting when there is very Complex Scenarios
<Cyprus_2> or even simple ones
<Hermes`> I find dreams lots of fun
<Cyprus_2> what I sometimes like in Lucid Dreams and even in Dreams themselves, its the expectation I have on how will they be
<Cyprus_2> and that's why I wonder if they are Objective or Subjective
<Hermes`> they are both
<Cyprus_2> yea
<Cyprus_2> its amazing our unconscious mind Creativity
<Cyprus_2> when I am falling asleep conscious
<Cyprus_2> and see hypnotic images
<Cyprus_2> or listen to sounds
<Cyprus_2> I think the music I sometimes listen very cool
<Cyprus_2> if I weren't lazy I would probably get up and try to reproduce the music
<Cyprus_2> I would win a fortune with them...
<Cyprus_2> :)
<Hermes`> the psyche, your own conscious and unconscious mind, is like a vast land that you have only scratched the surface of in discovering.
<Hermes`> this music is a small part of that wonder
<Hermes`> much more awaits as you go deeper and deeper into the Self.
<Hermes`> it sounds like you are doing most well
<Hermes`> now I must depart, as I have to be someplace shortly.
<Hermes`> the chat was very good tonight
<Hermes`> all of you are doing very well. I was only thinking that yesterday
<Hermes`> in the two years or more that you have all been coming here, you have all grown and learned a tremendous amount.
<Cyprus_2> ok
<Cyprus_2> yea
<Cyprus_2> nice chat
<Hermes`> be proud of what you have accomplished
<Cyprus_2> yea, I presume so
<Hermes`> talk to you all soon, bye
<Cyprus_2> hum
<Cyprus_2> just thing
<Cyprus_2> there is guy
<Cyprus_2> that I meet
<Cyprus_2> and I am teaching it
<Cyprus_2> he learns really fast
<Cyprus_2> had an obe already
<Cyprus_2> can I bring him here?
<Cyprus_2> later of course
<Hermes`> sure
<Cyprus_2> ok
<Cyprus_2> I do mean fast
<Hermes`> and it is good that you are passing on the knowledge
<Cyprus_2> ok
<Cyprus_2> good night then
<Cyprus_2> yea, I like teaching
<Hermes`> you will find your own students will learn faster than you did
<Hermes`> and you will learn more because of teaching them
<Hermes`> keep it up
<Cyprus_2> maybe because we already know what our difficulties and mistakes were
<Hermes`> yes
<Cyprus_2> and koz their questions makes us think
<Hermes`> yep
<Cyprus_2> ok
<Cyprus_2> I am going too
<Cyprus_2> need a rest
<Cyprus_2> haven't sleep much
<Cyprus_2> cya then
<Hermes`> okay night then.
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jul 18 19:33:03 2000
